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22yearguyvirgin
Senior Member
Posts: 104
Registered: 01-18-2006 Location:
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posted on 02-25-2006 at 20:43 |
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know yourself
I don't know how to say this without it sounding a little dirty to some of you out there. There are some posts here against masturbation and I just don't want anyone to be afraid to get to know their body. It is important to know what is normal for your body so that you can see a doctor when something is wrong. Men need to do things like prostate exams and for women breast exams. Things like this are not dirty and are nothing to be ashamed of.
I also want to say to all those younger people out there that you may want to try asking your parents about sex. It may not seem like they want to tell you anything and it will be a little awkward but if you ask the questions most parents will answer honestly.
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melvaughn
Member
Posts: 68
Registered: 06-30-2005 Location:
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posted on 02-25-2006 at 21:49 |
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masturbation
I agree that masturbation is perfectly fine. If you use constant pornography as an aid everytime you masturbate, then maybe you have problems, but using masturbation to become comfortable with your body should be a prerequisite for anyone before marriage (if they are waiting) It's like the equivalent of giving yourself a breast examination. It also helps women overcome orgams difficulties, and there are hundreds of scientific and medical studies on the benefits of masturbation and the release of an orgams...it makes your body healthier in general.
Some christians like to connect masturbation with negativity and tie it in with other irrelavent and seperate issues like (porn, lust, addiction) Well, you can become addicted to watching T.V and eating as well, but should I tell someone to stop eating?
Masturbation also is 'calming and raises self-esteem'- a scienfic study I found on the net....so any negativity over mastubation is usually socially conditioned due to up-bringing and bad religious teachings.
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melvaughn
Member
Posts: 68
Registered: 06-30-2005 Location:
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posted on 02-25-2006 at 21:58 |
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Check-out this
Check out this study done by planned-parenthood on all of the health benefits of the release of an orgasm...(which obviously includes masturbation)
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/pp2/portal/files/portal/medicalinfo/sexualhealth/white-030401-sexual-expression.pdf
Cut and paste that link- the info is really fascinating. Plus I think there is too much negativity associated with sex and sexuality(pregnancy, STD's etc) It's all this 'doom and gloom' all the time. These studies show all the positive benefits to sexual expression.
Here's another link to a ' christian masturbation forum' where christians discuss their views on masturbation. It's very enlightening. Most are in agreement that the bible is silent on masturbation and that chrisians who believe it's wrong, are often believing lies about sex. If people carefully read the bible and what the people on this site say, you can no longer rationally think masturbation is wrong. And once you realize this, it's so incredibly 'freeing' and you'll never feel guilt again.
http://www.themarriagebed.com/boards/viewforum.php?f=42
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GradBoy
Senior Member
Posts: 124
Registered: 02-22-2006 Location: Va
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posted on 02-25-2006 at 22:01 |
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not really
Well I think not.. sorry but you haven't made enough researches.. by reading only one article is never enough. Aside religious beliefs, forcing a body to undego biological chage by such means is not healthy!
By the way, I have a question, will ya?
Is it true that in (Sate) high schools the sex-education includes all kind of birth control, but abstinence?
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melvaughn
Member
Posts: 68
Registered: 06-30-2005 Location:
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posted on 02-25-2006 at 22:12 |
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masturbation
'Well I think not.. sorry but you haven't made enough researches.. by reading only one article is never enough. Aside religious beliefs, forcing a body to undego biological chage by such means is not healthy!
By the way, I have a question, will ya?
Is it true that in (Sate) high schools the sex-education includes all kind of birth control, but abstinence?'
Gradboy, visit this site, and read what other Christians have to say about masturbation. If you don't feel it's right for your OWN life then it's not right for YOU, but please don't make misinformed and sweeping generalizations for other people, especially when you don't back anything up with proff or evidence.
http://www.themarriagebed.com/boards/viewforum.php?f=42
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GradBoy
Senior Member
Posts: 124
Registered: 02-22-2006 Location: Va
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posted on 02-26-2006 at 00:14 |
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how lucky
Congratulations, you read a single article in your life and proved a very valuable [!] act.. so it seems helpful on you huh?
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22yearguyvirgin
Senior Member
Posts: 104
Registered: 01-18-2006 Location:
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posted on 02-26-2006 at 02:38 |
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Please be civil
First of all my original post wasn't about masturbation. I didn't mean masturbation by saying explore your body. I just mean don't be afraid to get to know your own body and how everything normally looks and feels. It can help you to know when something is wrong.
Now then. Please, Gradboy, if you can find the time please find some sources to post in your own support. I've been looking for several hours now. Everything I've found in support of your posts has been religiously baised, based on theories from before the 1960s (much of the theories about masturbation before the 60s was based off of inferenses made be physicians at mental hospitals that believed that the insane patients' excessive masturbation lead to their conditions but this is a little like saying a headache caused a tumor. Think about it. The insane have no inhibitions so they therefore will do what feels good to them.) or based on self diagnosed patients (many of which suffered from depression which is more than likely the underlying cause of many of their problems). By far the sites that I found were actually supportive of masturbation or undecided to it being good or bad. Many of these sites were actually religious.
This is nothing to get in a fight over. For the most part it is a personal decision and as such will be highly opinionated for most everyone. However, I will say that anything if overdone is not healthy.
I also want to mention a few things about female sexuality. Studies have shown that some women can actually have an orgasm from repeated sneezing. Also, some infections can cause a woman to be incredibly sensitive and can lead the rubbing of clothing to cause orgasms. Would you consider this masturbation? There are few differences between sex and masturbation so anytime you make a statement about masturbation it most certainly would carry over to sex.
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22yearguyvirgin
Senior Member
Posts: 104
Registered: 01-18-2006 Location:
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posted on 02-26-2006 at 03:12 |
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School
Is it true that in (Sate) high schools the sex-education includes all kind of birth control, but abstinence?
Sate? I'm guessing you mean public schools. If this is so then yes most public schools that have a sex education program do not include abstinence information into their descussions (abstinence is mostly thought to be a religious decission in the U.S.). In fact many schools don't have a sexual education program.
Sorry if my spelling is getting worse. I'm a bit tired.
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liz25
Member
Posts: 46
Registered: 02-26-2006 Location:
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posted on 02-26-2006 at 10:53 |
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Masturbation
I have an interesting story that will might help people get over their inhibitions about masturbation....by the way, the 'health link' that melvaughn posted is accurate and true.
I majored in Human sexuality at the University of Waterloo, and my professor showed our class that exact article as completely relevant information. Endorphines are released during masturbation (similar to when you exercise) and will produce a calming and relaxed sensation which leads to better health, longivity, self-esteem. (trust me after studying this at school for the past three years, i'm well informed and melvaughn, is totally right with the planned parenthood article) And there is not only ONE article, there are HUNDREDS of these types of scientific and empirical studies that have been done in 2006.
Now for my story: It's is very IMPORTANT, that women especially learn to masturbate if they want to stay a virgin until marriage. My close friend had major inhibitions, never touched herself once and wasn't comfortable with her body. Well, she found it soooo difficult to have sex after marriage. She couldn't have sex for SIX months, because she had never explored the inside of her vagina...it's very important for women to practice stretching exercises before marriage, so that penetration is not as painful. She also wen't almost 10 years of marriage, never experiencing an orgasm. She finally seeked therapy and her doctor recommended masturbation. It wasn't until she masturbated that she finally experienced an orgasm and her sex-life improved 100%
I hope most guys know that most women CANNOT reach orgasm through intercourse. They need clitoral stimulation. And women can often only learn to orgasm if they are in-tune with their bodies, in which they can THEN show the guy what they find pleasurable. I'd hate to see people end up in a sexless marraige or with orgasm difficulties because of some old-fashion lies.
Also, isn't it interesting that women's clitoris, is designed for pleasure ONLY...that is it's only purpose and how interesting that it's placed on the outside of the vagina within easy access. And why do our arms fall within perfect lengh of our genitals if we weren't suppose to masturbate?
I know hundreds of very healthy, well-adjusted individuals who have been masturbating for years and have NO ailments.
Gradboy, why do you think catholic priests end up abusing little boys? It's not because they are gay, but because of their unnatural celibacy (no masturbation) makes them break-down. It's not healthy or natural.
If a grown man has never in his life ever felt any sexual urges to masturbate, they are most likely ASEXUAL...surprisingly this is more common than you'd think. 1 in every 20 people have an aversion toward sex and a non-existent sex drive......(according to my text-book)
but I want to know that my future husband masturbates....it shows me they have a healthy and well-developed sex drive. I'm not waiting until marriage so I can have sex once a month with the lights out in the missionary position... Being a virgin doesn't mean you don't have the same urges as everyone else.
people shouldn't fall on either end of the extreme. You shouldn't DEVALUE sex by sleeping with everyone you meet but humans are sexual beings and you shouldn't fall on the opposite end of the pole either...because both will lead to negative consequences.
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melvaughn
Member
Posts: 68
Registered: 06-30-2005 Location:
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posted on 02-26-2006 at 11:02 |
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thanks
Wow, thanks for all the info liz25. I also took a class on human sexuality in school and have read more than just one article on the matter. I wrote an undergrad paper on the subject when I was in school and interviewed numerous different doctors on the subject. All of them mentioned the health benefits of having regular orgasms through masturbation and the longitudinal studies that show an increase in longevity and an increase in overall well-being.
It's also common for infants and babies as old as six months to start masturbating. It's a natural an inbred function. I began masturbating when I was about 3 years old, and right now I'm as healthy as ever!! I'm sooo glad I have no hang-ups about sex!
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liz25
Member
Posts: 46
Registered: 02-26-2006 Location:
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posted on 02-26-2006 at 11:27 |
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Just to add
I'd also like to add that the more you learn to pleasure yourself and give yourself an orgasm, the easier you'll reach orgasm through sex with your spouse. The pleasure you learn through masturbation is like a stepping stone into intercourse. Women who don't know how to acheive an orgasm while single, most likely will not orgasm through intercourse either. When you get really good, the man can train his body to last longer by 'stopping and starting' the masturbation cycle, he can learn to 'control' his orgasm so he will be able to TIME when it happens. The women can also learn these techniques. All this is very beneficial to your future spouse.
Also, sex toys and vibrators are very useful for the women once you are married. It's so rewarding to see the women enjoying sex and getting pleasure as equally as the man and vibrators are made to stimulate the clitoris in ways a penis cannot. This will make sex, more fulfilling since I can only imagine how boring to have sex with a women who just lies there getting no pleasure, waiting for it to be over. Unless there are some men who don't take into account the wife's plesure. In the 50's it was believed that only men experienced sexual pleasure and that the female orgasm did not exist.
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liz25
Member
Posts: 46
Registered: 02-26-2006 Location:
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posted on 02-26-2006 at 11:49 |
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masturbation
Gradboy...why are you so afraid to masturbate? Is it because you don't feel any sexual urges? Or you think you'll get some kind of ailment? Don't you think adults in their 40/50's who have been masturbating for years (sometimes three times a day) would be suffering from some kind of disease by now..haha.(I feel ridiculous writing this)
So do you think oral sex in a marriage is wrong and dirty as well? And that doing this is harmful? What about sex in different positions? I'm just curious about what you find acceptable, sexually once you are married. What about mutual masturbation once you are married? Many couples perfom this act when they are married...are they also going to go blind and suffer from some kind of ailment by masturbating each other? Since having your wife masturbate you is the equivalent of doing it yourself, I assume this will also cause GRAVE problems.
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melvaughn
Member
Posts: 68
Registered: 06-30-2005 Location:
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posted on 02-26-2006 at 12:50 |
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haha... liz25, that's funny
Actually, it's funny but when I'm studying for a mid-term or test, I find masturbating, gets rid of my stress, helps me relax, and actually improves my concentation and memory afterwards. I was just thinking back on how every test I aced was when I masturbated while studying..haha
I say, do what ever works for you. No one should impose their rules or what they feel is right or wrong on someone else. Everyone has different tastes in food/clothing and people will have different sexual desires and needs and what doesn't work for someone, will be perfect for others.
Also, animals not only masturbate, but many animals, like adult gorillas for instance perform oral sex on each other. I actually witnessed this once at the zoo...I thought it was beautiful and totally natural.
I've posted this link before but if anyone is contemplating waiting until marriage you can read others' experiences with sex and sexual compatiblity on the honeymoon (since they were all virgins when they married) This discussion is called "What to expect before marriage" I find it interesting to read since alot of people give virgins a hard time about sexual compatiblity but this site proves otherwize based on their personal stories of what happened on the wedding night!!!!
http://www.themarriagebed.com/boards/viewforum.php?f=28&sid=a32ddfd10b465729964ba5b0c57e15c0
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Kate10
Newbie
Posts: 1
Registered: 02-26-2006 Location:
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posted on 02-26-2006 at 13:49 |
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thanks for the link
Thanks for the link. I just browsed around on the site, and it's nice to know that it's possible for virgins to get married and have active sex lives later on. I like the thread on "creative sex ideas" It's nice to know that just because you're a christian doesn't mean you'll be boring, or unadventourous in bed. (For some reason I was assuming that all Christians were Prudes.) and also just because you waited until marriage doesn't mean you'll be frigid....
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melvaughn
Member
Posts: 68
Registered: 06-30-2005 Location:
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posted on 02-26-2006 at 13:52 |
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Your welcome
Glad you visited the link and found it helpful. Unfortunatly, Christians who are prudish are ones who get caught-up in legalism.
This site is more liberal, and it shows that you can wait until marriage, have a high sex drive, be sexually compatible and have a great sex life for years, with no problems that others like to 'pretend' virgins will run into
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dreamangel
Member
Posts: 64
Registered: 02-26-2006 Location:
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posted on 02-26-2006 at 16:56 |
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Hello
I just happened to find this site and I would like to add to this discussion. Masturbation saved my marriage literally. I was the 'inhibited' type who never wen't near my vagina. My husband also had never masturbated either and didn't want me to ever touch my clitoris. Sex was total hell. My husband would last, 3 seconds. He would thrust in once and it would be over before I had a chance to blink. He then, refused to stimulat my clit, telling me this was what sex was suppose to me like. I was miserable for years. I finally convinced him to see a sex therapist, and our therapist had to literally, teach us how the body worked and told us to masturbate. Let me tell you, people are in for a huge shock, if they think they can hop into a marriage, never having gone near their body and then assume they'll be having multiple orgasms.
Once we both learned to masturbate, my husband was able to last longer during intercourse. He practiced the 'starting and stopping' technique liz mentioned. He would also masturbate an hour before we made-love which also helped him last longer. Masturbating increased our sex-drive which made us want to have sex more often. It also gave us more pleasurablable sensations when we did have sex. Each orgasm would get more intense because, we were practising through masturbation.
I learned that I had an entire world of untapped pleasure that was totally unexplored. I learned how to give myself an orgasm through masturbation. After a year of this, I learned to actually orgasm through intercourse alone (Which was a huge accomplishment) I then discovered my g-spot...I was amazed and so glad I seeked help. Otherwize I would have spent my whole life, thinking, "well, women just don't enjoy sex" How terrible that would have been and how terrible that some men and women will get married, and never experience an orgasm their entire life, because of some old wives tales about self-pleasure.
Also, since my husband and I began masturbating, we've felt healthier, younger, more exuberant....because we are actually having orgasms, now. It gives you a glow, it helps you sleep better at night, it even helps mentrual cramps and it took away the depression I suffered through.
Please don't spend your entire life, never knowing your own sexuality. This doesn't mean you can't wait until marriage, but be prepared. Read books, know how the male/female body works, be familiar with the genitals of the female body and viceversa (I don't want anyone to make the mistake I made) and have to suffer for it. Women's bodies are much more complicated than a man's. You wouldn't throw someone behind a car and expect them to know how to drive would you? When a women touches their body they begin to feel more comfortable with themselves and their own sexuality/body which is what raises their confidence and their ability to feel pleasure during intercourse.
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liz25
Member
Posts: 46
Registered: 02-26-2006 Location:
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posted on 02-26-2006 at 17:34 |
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hey
You sound just like my friend. I'm so glad you got help.
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GradBoy
Senior Member
Posts: 124
Registered: 02-22-2006 Location: Va
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posted on 02-26-2006 at 17:48 |
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Hold on, let me show you all wrong really!!
First of all, I'm very glad that there are some active people using this forum; though with wrong information
Second, now I have plenty of people fight against; no problem, never lost any scientific debate though. Not a problem for this case either.. think about how certainty [!] on Ortho Evra failed last month.. and became uncertain or much detrimental.
Anyway, may I ask for a little patience; I have to finish 10 homework where each take 4 hours intensive study without any motivation it's hard, but by making a promise to a friend helping with the same homework problems, I actually made a trick to force myself study, let me exhaust this motivation first, then will clear up this issue
I like you all,
Cheers.
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liz25
Member
Posts: 46
Registered: 02-26-2006 Location:
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posted on 02-26-2006 at 17:59 |
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Hmmmm
hmmm, you keep side stepping giving us your info??? I don't think you can dispute personal stories. How much more evidence do you need? There is plenty of 'so-called' scientific mumbo jumbo stuff that gets circulated, but the test is to go by your own personal life. I think, if not masturbating works for you, then that is good for you, but look how helpful it has been for other people. You can't paint everyone with the same brush. You can't force your lifestyle on to someone else. 95% of people masturbate and they've been masturbating for millions of years. People use to burn witches at the stake when they had mental problems. I get the feeling your theories on masturbation our very similar.
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GradBoy
Senior Member
Posts: 124
Registered: 02-22-2006 Location: Va
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posted on 02-26-2006 at 18:46 |
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answer to hmmm
Liz,
As you say your findings are all "personal" and moreover they are only "stories".. so no further benefits that you can also claim for majority.
I'm here not to spread my own believes, neither I'm here to show it didn't work for me, cuz for someone who never ever bothered to come close to such horrible, discussing and yet nasty stuff.. you can't tell it didn't work for me, by the way what should work for godsake? if I see a scorpion on a friend I will tell him to get rid of; but that's his decision to listen or refuse.
I am also afraid, youngs reading those above misleading posts will actually be affected to some extent, and will probably say 'oh then mas..bating is actually good and healthy' which infact is NOT!!
I'm not trying to persuade someone to something. I just want people to analyse things before they do it. You can't always get exact scientific facts you need to refrain from.. But you always free to use your own magical and truthful judge; the conscience and conscience never lies!! Let just your conscience talk and decide, then you will see if that's right! ..... there you go
Nevertheless, I will try to present all scientific facts and rulings that masturbation is actually harmful, unnecessary and unnatural! Then I will tell all my experiences that I got from some of my students.. then I will tell you something extremely important that hopefully will make you refrain, or at least think on it.
Again, life is yours, wasting it or not it's totally your decision.. spend it as you wish.
I gotta go, friends calling me for lemon-tea.. I love it much.
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22yearguyvirgin
Senior Member
Posts: 104
Registered: 01-18-2006 Location:
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posted on 02-27-2006 at 01:20 |
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I HATE MAKING UP TITLES
Please Gradboy choose your words more wisely. Some of your statements are likely to make you get a lot more hostility than you will like. I don't know if you mean to come across this way or not.
Again, life is yours, wasting it or not it's totally your decision.. spend it as you wish.
Statements like this make you sound like you are trying to force your views on others. Saying that someone is wasting their life if they don't live the same way you do is not likely to gain you any fans.
Second, now I have plenty of people fight against; no problem, never lost any scientific debate though.
Statements like this make you sound like you have a superiority complex. That is a very undesirable point of view.
Gradboy I am not going to directly tell you that you are wrong as that would be rude but until you can post some evidence please be a little more humble. You're coming across as a little over confident. Also, please try to use bolding and CAPITALIZATION sparingly as it is the equivalent of yelling.
I have spent a great deal of time in the last 4 years researching medicine, psycology and human sexuality online. I have never found a valid study showing masturbation to be physically damaging (unless you count damage from rubbing too hard.  I know its a little bit of a dirty joke but this string needs to lighten up a little).
Liz25, I agree with most everything you have posted. However, I personally don't think that most women cannot achieve an orgasm through intercourse. I feel like there are two reasons why most women don't achieve orgasm through intercourse. First, most men don' t take the time to learn how to do such things. Second, many women are inhibited about their sexuality and do not allow themselfs to be comfortable. Did you know that there are some women who claim that they can achieve orgasm without any physical stimulation. I remember a woman in one forum stating that she could have any orgasm by crossing her legs and willing it on (she bragged about doing it at work from time to time). Sex is more mental than it is physical so some people can reach an orgasm without genital stimulation. I will worn you that the next few sentences will sound discusting but are true. There are some men that like to go into crowds and brush against (and I don't mean private parts) women (or I guess men if thats what they like) and orgasm from the tactile sensation. I find sexuality fascinating so I enjoy learning everything I can about it. I grew up with few inhibitions in my family about sexuality and my mother was open about it. I don't feel like anyone should be afraid of their sexuality. I don't mean try to have sex with anything that moves (I happen to believe in virgin marriage) but a person should feel free to discuss it. There is nothing disgusting about sex and it can be a beautiful experience under the right circumstances.
Melvaughn, I agree with everything you have said as well. Thank you for posting a few link. Though I must admit I have yet to look at them thoroughly.
dreamangel, it is good that you got some help. Every person needs to learn what they like so that they can help their partner along. No matter how close two people are in life they still both have very different bodies and will require some help getting to know each other.
Kate 10, not all Christians are prudish. In resent decades there has been a bit of sexual revolution in the church as Christians realized that there is nothing in the Bible that is a deterent to enjoying sex after marriage. Many people quote the song of songs as proof that God intended us to enjoy sex.
I did a great deal of searching yesterday and found a lot of interesting materials (I will post some links at request. I would have already posted some but I wanted to give Gradboy a chance first.). There was something I found very interesting called "The Monk's disease". Its kind of an arguement for masturbation. Its a little old and the causes are still not certain though. Just type "Monk's disease" prostatitis into a search engine to find out a little about it.
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GradBoy
Senior Member
Posts: 124
Registered: 02-22-2006 Location: Va
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posted on 02-27-2006 at 04:46 |
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thanks for great hospitality
22guy,
quote:
I would have already posted some but I wanted to give Gradboy a chance first.)
thanks, but what do you expect for someone who is in his superiority complex and not humble at all?
it was my fault to come across this forum,
bye.
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melvaughn
Member
Posts: 68
Registered: 06-30-2005 Location:
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posted on 02-27-2006 at 16:21 |
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Masturbation
Thanks guyvirgin22 for being a bit more 'sane' and rational in your answers. This forum was starting to scare me..haha
Gradboy, you said, you've never lost a 'scientific debate' yet you refuse to post any evidence, most likely because it's not scientific. Most recent scientific info approves of masturbation. Since Alfred Kinsey broke out in the 50's, he shed a whole new light on sex and masturbation with emprical and objective studies.
Plus, by saying you "shouldn't have found this forum" shows you are close-minded...you can't use words like (unnatural, dirty, and unhealthy) without backing it up with VERY good evidence otherwize no one is going to believe you. Besides, you can't expect everyone to have the exact same opinion as you, otherwize, they'd all be miserable and in a sexless marriage, scared of their own body. My opinion is that if people think masturbation is soooo dirty, there is a good chance they will think sex is also dirty, and will have sex once a month, with the lights out, and 'get it over with'...how depressing to live your life like that.. That's not what marriage was meant for.
Also, you never answered any of Liz25 questions. Are you Asexual? Will mutual masturbation (in a marriage) also cause diseases and ailments, since mutual masturbation after marraige has the same qualities as solo-masturbation.
I have taken human sexuality courses in University, and I'm familiar with the statistics. The higher educated you are in school, the more comfortable you will be with masturbation and the more frequently you will masturbate. Usually because you are educated and don't believe the outdated myths.
As for vaginal orgasms...It is acutally very rare in most women. Only about 30% of women can orgasm without clitoral stimulation. In some people it could be mental, but it's physical as well. Besides the g-spot which takes effort to find (and not all women respond to it) the vaginal canal has NO nerve endings. There is next to no sensation, (which being a women I can tell you is TRUE) The women who accidentally orgasm while crossing their legs, are probably having clitoral orgasms (since the clitoris is on the outside) not vaginal. Not to say that vaginal ones don't exist, but they are hard and take years of practice. Although I've also heard of cervix orgasms which occur only through intercourse. But, in a survey I read, about 85% of women ALWAYS orgasm with clitoral and only 30% through intercourse.
And most women do not masturbate with 'insertion' because, like I said, there is just not a lot of 'sensation'...it's very unfair!!! A lot of women I know, prefer oral sex (because it ensures an orgasm everytime) to intercourse in which most will not orgasm. Especially since it takes women a lot longer to orgasm than a man.
But check out the links I posted. (The marriage bed) link is about virgin marriages, yet everyone on the forum is very open and they all have high sex drives and they give tips and techniqes on how to improve- and most were virgins when they married yet arn't repressed which is nice to see. Also I hate how sex is always linked to negativity. In 'sex ed' class when I was in grade 4, the teachers seem to try and scare you with (STD, Aids, Pregnancy) and leave out anything positive, which is wrong. The link to "planned parenthood" is recent, done by a group of researchers, and they spent years doing experiments on people of all ages, and their results are empirical and give a positive spin on sexuality. It will make people want to have a healthy sex life once they are married because of all the benefits that were found.
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liz25
Member
Posts: 46
Registered: 02-26-2006 Location:
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posted on 02-27-2006 at 16:41 |
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scary
"cuz for someone who never ever bothered to come close to such horrible, discussing and yet nasty stuff.."
You hit the nail on the head with this comment. If you have never EVER in your entire life masturbated, your opinions are biased. How would you know about the benefits or so called 'lack of them' if you've never experienced masturbation before? You are obviously believing some very persistent, brainwashed lies and using your 'own life' to judge others' due to a low sex drive. Most teenage boys will naturally experiment with masturbation at some time in their life, because sex is an inbred and physical/biological necessity. If you've never experienced any urges there is something wrong.
Then you use your own low sex drive (possibly asexual) as a base for your arguments and make universal statements for ALL other people. ...I can really think of no other cause but this.
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melvaughn
Member
Posts: 68
Registered: 06-30-2005 Location:
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posted on 02-27-2006 at 18:20 |
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re
"I just want people to analyse things before they do it"
Yes, but are you analyzing everything properly? You have a one-sided opinion. I'm betting you haven't even read any of the links that were posted. You would rather shut your eyes to anything but what you believe.
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dreamangel
Member
Posts: 64
Registered: 02-26-2006 Location:
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posted on 02-27-2006 at 18:45 |
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Stories??
"As you say your findings are all "personal" and moreover they are only "stories".. so no further benefits that you can also claim for majority. "
Poor gradboy, we are picking on him..but I guess he brought it on himself. What exactly are you a grad of? What did you study? if you don't mind me asking.
There is a difference between stories that are fictional and real-life, experiences. My experience with masturbation was not 'just a story' It was very real, and I'm very convicted that if I hadn't discovered masturbation I would have stayed miserable. It not only made me more confident, but I felt more attractive and comfortable with my body once I learned that the human genitals are not some disease, we should be scared to touch!!
And as for the 'endorphines' released during an orgasm...isn't that just common knowledge?? I assumned everyone knew that.
Also, gradboy, do you believe sex is for procreation only? Because if you have such an aversion/discust toward touching your genitals then that is usually a sign of a much deeper issue. A councillor could probably get to the root of these problems. If you feel discust toward your body/genitals then I assume you won't let your future wife touch your body/genitals either....your attitude is going to carry over into your marriage, just to warn you.
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22yearguyvirgin
Senior Member
Posts: 104
Registered: 01-18-2006 Location:
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posted on 02-28-2006 at 00:50 |
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I still HATE making titles
Gradboy, you don't have to leave. I didn't mean anything to be offensive. I just wanted you to realize that the way you worded things sometimes is a little overbearing.
Melvaughn, I don't mean to say that every woman should be able to reach orgasm through normal intercourse. I just feel like more women could if given the right conditions. I don't think that most men spend enough time trying to please their partner. We guys are easy. A little rubbing and its over but women require a lot more attention. Also there are some positions that I've heard do apply some amount of clitoral stimulation, though I haven't research it much. I have spent a great deal of time researching female sexuality and have seen many of the things you have mention but have never found much statistical data. Thank you for posting some statistics. May I ask where you found them? I worry a lot about when I am married because I want to make my wife's first time (well actually every time) as magical an experience as I can so anything that I can learn from I am glad to read.
Liz25, I just want to say that a low to nonexistent sex drive doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with them. There have been many people that have lived a full, happy, and productive life without every having any sexual desires (I have found a few celibacy sites dealing with these kind of people). It is believed the reason that there are few people with a low sex drive is because people with higher sex drives should breed more and therefore will have more children. However, just having a consistently low sex drive is not by any means a sign of an ailment. When there is a fear of sexuality at the root of a person's low sex drive then there is a problem and the person should probably seek some psycological help under those circumstances.
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liz25
Member
Posts: 46
Registered: 02-26-2006 Location:
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posted on 02-28-2006 at 11:49 |
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low sex drive = most common sexual dysfunction
While I agree that people are born with varying degrees of a sex-drive but to have a non-existent sex drive is NOT something people are naturally born with. I'm not saying it isn't possible to have a happy life with a non-existent sex drive, but I don't think it's natural to be born with an aversion or disgust toward sex. Not to mention, having no sex drive would seriously hinder and alter any if not ALL of your romantic relationships.
Having no sex drive is listed in the DMS-medical directory of disorders. It's called 'sexual desire disorder'. Another is an 'aversion disorder' And most of these disorders make the person's life miserable which is why so many drugs and therapy are available for these people. I believe these sexual dysfunctions develp due to circumstances. I've read that perfomance anxiety, erectile dysfunctions, and other related problems can condition a person to develop an aversion toward sex and combined with a strict, religious, guilt-ridden environment can shape the way a person views their sexuality which can lower their sex-drive. In adult women, it was found that women who had an aversion to sex or hated sex, had many psychological issues like a sexually abusive past.
As long as people are born with properly functioning genitals they should respond in a sexual way- like you said earlier, sex and the ability to orgasm is mostly mental. Unless someone is physically disabled in someway, having no sex-drive is usually a sign of other,
(mostly psychological) issues.
But, I was mostly referring to not liking when people (gradboy) use their own life and their own experiences as a judgment for everyone else. And how interesting that he disappears as soon as he is challenged: If he were truly confident or had a strong argument, he would have jumped at the opportunity to show us we were wrong. But I really don't think he had much of any info.
Here are Some related threads on sexual desire disorders:
http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/dsm4TRclassification.htm#Sexual
http://health.yahoo.com/centers/sexual_health/2067
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/12/1685_50118.htm
http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C477282.html
http://marriage.about.com/cs/lowsexdrive/a/2malelowlibido.htm
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GradBoy
Senior Member
Posts: 124
Registered: 02-22-2006 Location: Va
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posted on 02-28-2006 at 19:15 |
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Back for a while
Dear 22Guy,
First of all, you made me very upset by your previous post; you came up with personal prejudice you don't have a single idea about; tried to pull out my personality from some phrases, forgetting that looking at world with your own glasses will show only your-glass-color-painted world. Upon reading that message, It made me spent whole night analysing myself over and over again, whether I really have any complexity or character disorder; and find you totally wrong in your assumptions. Neither "never losing a scientific debate" shows any kind of complexity, but factual experience; nor saying "fight back against" stands for any kind of immoral, but making forum discussions interesting and getting rid of boredom. On the other hand, you calling yourself a "christian scientist" and meanwhile not living (abstaining from M = masturbation) shows deep complexity of your own. Anyway, let it go, maybe in time we will come together in some common values, and I will be glad to be your friend (if you likeso, please, do not toss on me for a while, look above I have many people fight against :))
Now, dear virgin ladies and gentlemen who perform M,
You already have chosen your life-route and pleasure methods. Maybe, it will be hard to confront with any side effects of M, since knowing the detriments of your causal habits, would make you feel pain. That's why you rely on some scientific facts [!] proposed by two or three studies (we see only 3 or 4 active minds speaking on favor of M, and all others refer to them). Moreover, science did not say the last word on M. There is no rigorous psycological, physicological or sociaological research have done! Remember, Newton was the ultimate authority and certain[!] during his time, but now we see his theory nothing but a junk.. well, very limited version of much general theory The General Relativity.. The most brilliant brain, Eistein, was against Quantum Mechanics with his dunken experiments.. time showed he was WRONG.. even in the medical science, as I mentioned before, about OrthoEvra, now doctors changed their mind!.. what I'm saying is science is unstable and not fully reliable and didn't utter the last word.. day by day we see old things leave please to totally different conclusions.. roof above unstable fundamental won't hang for long.. So the best doctor, the best judge, the best friend is your own conscience! It never lies, unless you disregard it. Ask him before you do a thing.. just turn it on and you won't be able to kill an ant!
Your frequent behaviours or acts that actually conflict with your internal structure (conscience), It psychologically biases you to hold firmly on 'conformable info' found. Think about this, a believer who commits a sin over and over would want non-existence of God; since it's hard to know someone watching you unwanted.. and whenever he finds even a weak evidence (if there is any) proving non-existence, then he sticks to that idea firmly..later becomes even an atheist..
Dreamangel,
Among all of post, you made a brilliant argument about the mutual M. It is very appreciated to have any kind of mutual sexual pleasure, of course under marriage. The difference between solo M and M driven by wife to her husband, or vice versa is psychologically fine (as far as I see). Using any kind of mutual method normal and natural (excluding one, I won't mention it here, it will bring up a whole new discussionSo, my Dreamangel, you are out of scope of this discussion, enjoy your sexual life. Since I'm not asexual at all, I wish I could enjoy it as well. By the way someone who is physically very strong -researches show such men usually have much sexual drive- as well. So, that's meRefraining from: looking at any kind of nudity, reading sexually bombarded expressions/books/stories, watching triple-R rated movies (no such rating though, explicit sexual scenes in films led to special new-ratings by some websites) don't light on your sexual ignitions. Anyway, you're out of our discussion, let's make you a judge among us
Dear Liz25,
I'm neither afraid nor refused to provide any evidences against M. I won't do any such un-ethical behaviour. By the way, you made logically wrong expressionby saying if you never done, you wouldn't know it.. do you have to taste poison to say whether it's harmful or not? though I like your approach, it made me smile. Thank you muchBut I didn't understand why it's scary? Not doing something that I believe is unnecessary, is not scary at all and it doesn't make you frigid either and I think none of my friends tried it, 8 of my university friends are married and all are already having cute babies Liz25, I don't use my own life experiences to judge others, I'm not a Freud (who spent his life in a toilet doing self-tests)... I just find immoral and unnecessary! and where nowhere else, except States, I heard virgins doing it..well at least majority. Cultures where I lived (6 different now) didn't have such inclination (I think so..) Again, if you want to perform it, it's your decision. Further, you mentioned about the catholic priests being celibacy and meanwhile ending up abusing little boys.. I just find those priests (they don't deserve this name though) pathetic and scisophrenic.. I know no celestial religion that encourages celibacy[=not getting married entire life]; infact this was invented by 'priests' ending up with failure.. being a celibate is itself unnatural. By the way, contrary to Dr. Laura's opinion where gays are considered to be biological mistakes, It could be, however I really think it's a healable inclination; 6 years ago I had a friend who was gay, then after analizing him carefully, I came up with my own humble solutions and talked to him, tried to have him get over that stuff.. worked? Yes!! He got back to normal after 2 months or so; now I think he is married (if not having a cute newborn baby) Anyway, this is a different topic.
Melvaughn,
What do you mean by saying one-sided opinion? You claimed beneficial or harmless sides and I claim the opposite; that's what brings discussion. Do you want me to be two-sided and use uncertain expressions such as maybe, could be, might be, perhaps.. I can mathematically show that there is uncertainty at the fundamental of the nature; where we see some magical paddles driving the whole universe.. however, uncertain expressions during speech shows lack of knowledge to some extent. Beautiful lady, I just want to show there is actually harms of M, and need not be done, unless you really ought do it. A friend of mine told me that, it's very difficult to find a virgin girl in States; I couldn't believe it and came across this forum. However, I was totally shocked seeing people performing self-esteem methods, or some other weird stuff.. yet, encouraging to do it.. Although you already have chosen your way and will not easily change it (study says it becomes hard to abandon it, if someone has started doing it..), but taking an advice or not, doing it or not, believing it's wrong or not is totally your choice. I have no force on you, though you are a very nice person.. Everybody here deserves the best in their life.. you are struggling against your environmental pressure for your virginity. That's very appreciable attitude. If performing M, is the only way to stay away from sex, then I change my opinion for you only
Moving towards our subject let me say that, I couldn't make really academic research on it; I couldn't look at articles and written books at home, it needs subscription. From University, for me it's not ethical to use my office computer for off-topic purposes; I mean I don't use public belongings for my own needs, I don't even take a direction-print outs.. on the other hand, embroidering meaningless things is to mislead pure minds, so there is no benefit but harm on occupying mind with sexuality over and over and over.. I hope you will be respectful about it.
M, is something bewildered world gave birth to.. a poor human-being is bombarded by exploitation of sexuality and nudity.. media; films, newspapers, books, advertisements and many many instances of sexual innuendo forced society to undergo self-esteem methods. Not only this, but also, emotional erosion, loneliness and lack of love brought so many unnatural, yet temporal solutions.. M, is just a droplet in the ocean..
Before I go further making it unreadable, let me stop here just by not leaving any questions unanswered behind and contunuing next time.. 
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22yearguyvirgin
Senior Member
Posts: 104
Registered: 01-18-2006 Location:
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posted on 03-01-2006 at 02:27 |
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Gradualy my hatred of titles increases
Liz25, I understand you were mostly refering to gradboy. I just want people to realize that not everyone is the same. Yes normaly a low sex drive is due to some psycological trama, however there are well adjusted people in the world that do not have a desire to be sexual (They are exceedingly rare, probably less than 1% of the population. The only reason I know anything about it is I found some resources about it when doing research for a celibacy web site I was creating). Not everyone needs to be. So long as they are happy, I feel like these people should be free to live their lives how they wish without anyone telling them they are wrong. I also understand that in the medical world that if a person shows a certain difference from the norm then most doctors decide that the person requires treatment. I feel like this is a common misconception in the field of medicine. What is normal for most is not necissarily best for all (I have had some bad experiences with the medical field in the past). No offense to any MD's out there. Just my opinion.
Gradboy, I was not analyzing your personality (sorry about the different colors and sizes in my last few posts. I was testing some different tags). I just wanted to let you know that your speech in some of your posts could be missinterpreted to be a little offensive. I have met many people that did not grow up in the U.S. and this is a common problem for most when adjusting to the differences in culture. Many Americans get very offended by some statements (when they seem overly forceful) assuming that the speaker is close minded. I have no problem with you or your point of view (I personaly feel that everyone should feel free to express their opinion without fear of retaliation but thats not possible) and did not mean my statements as an attack. I'm just affraid that some of your statements will cause some people to get very defensive and blow you off as an ignorant fanatic. As you have probably already noticed, you have already gotten this reaction to some extent. This is not the first time (even in these forum that my words have been missinterpreted. I'm sorry. I meant my previous posts as advise to help you gain a little more acceptance in the forum.
No one here has attacked your point of view. You are free to feel however you want about masturbation and sexuality. These people seem to mostly worry that your viewpoint is due to an aversion to your own sexuality and that would be unhealthy. The only attacks you have really gotten are because of your statements that masturbation is unhealthy. Now admittedly masturbation can be unhealthy (as almost anything could be) if the masterbator (is that even a real word?) feels that they are doing something wrong or it consumes all of their time. However, not everyone feels it is wrong. Many people feel that sexuality and all things sexual are nothing to be ashamed of (you will find this is a dominent perspective in these forums). You seem to mention conscience a lot. To some extent everyone conscience is ingrained in their personality at a young age (and actually almost all babies and small children do to some extent have a habit of touching their private parts rather often while they discover themselves). However as we grow and change as individuals our conscience changes. You see many people (myself included) feel that masturbation is not sinful in and of itself. It is the lusting for another that is sinful.
The following is my own religious rantings so if you are touchy about such sujects please skip this paragraph. I have no ill will towards any religion but much of our inhibitions in society about sex come from the Roman Catholic church which (as it is a man made institution and thereby imperfect) has had its problems and misconceptions in the past. The Bible in itself does not define sexuality or masturbation as sinful. Think about it God made man (and woman) in his own image "and it was good" He gave us these feelings for a reason. They are nothing to be ashamed of. The only things sexual that the Bible frowns upon are sex outside of marriage and lust (which it is hard enough in itself to understand the Bible's meaning of lust). Sometimes the story of Onan (if I remember right) is brought up in descussions of anything from masturbation to birth control. However, this is one of the many parts of the Bible whose meaning can be hazy. However, I personaly feel that this is just another one of the stories in the Bible that is meant to tell us to follow the laws of man, (as with Jesus's answer to tax collection) as long as they don't interfer with God law but the story is open to interpretation. I am a Christian and God comes first in my life, however, I do not believe that anyone should follow the churches of man blindly. Read the Bible yourself and find your own meaning. The leaders of every church are only human and liable to err. Find your own path. Anyway I'm done with my religious rant for now although I'm sure it will bring up something from some one since religion is such a touchy subject.
M, is something bewildered world gave birth to.. a poor human-being is bombarded by exploitation of sexuality and nudity.. media; films, newspapers, books, advertisements and many many instances of sexual innuendo forced society to undergo self-esteem methods. Not only this, but also, emotional erosion, loneliness and lack of love brought so many unnatural, yet temporal solutions.. M, is just a droplet in the ocean..
Masturbation has been around since the beginings of man kind. There are even Egyptian hieroglyphics depicting masturbation as part of their creation story. I also want to say that just because a person masturbates doesn't mean that they are lonely or feel unloved. Many people masturbate as a method of self exploration so that they can learn more about their body. The great majority of people masturbate as a release of sexual tension. Not because of exposure to sexuality but simple because we have a natural urge for sex and a partner is not always availabe (even inside a marriage). Not every one has the same libido. You will find this disgusting and it is rather personal but I will give you my "personal" story (even though you often seem to ignore peoples personal experiences as anomalies). The people in my family tend to be very sexual and I am the first to maintain my virgnity until mariage in about 3 generations. Now for your misconceptions about the physical effects of "M". In junior high school, I think 8th grade (after masturbating for some time, since I was about age 11 or 12) I was able to lift 1500 Ilbs. without any previous weight training. Recently I was able to lift the front of my car (~2500 for front) off the ground by hand or at least I could before I slipped on a wet step and strained my back. My sight has gotten better since I was younger. The only mental problems (memory, conscentration, etc.) I have ever had are from migraine headaches (started before i started "M") and a concussion I suffered some time ago. Now the reason that I started and continue to "M" is that I often woke up at night with a painful erection sometimes lasting for 2 or 3 hours (I think I rolled over on it While sleeping) and had trouble concentrating around the opposite sex from a very young age. (Even more personal story. My mother tells me that a few days after they brought me home my father was watching a pornographic movie with me in the room and as soon as a nude woman appeared on the screen I had an instant erection. This makes me wonder if sexuality is to some extent hardwired in us at birth). Now if you feel this is wrong thats totally up to you but thats me. Thats my story or at least most of it. I'm sure I left something out. Now I can assure you that I am not lonely (at least not on a sexual level) or emotionally erudoded. In fact I am possibly one of the most emotional men you will ever find which is part of why I have never had a true girl friend. I just can't find a woman that I can connect with on the emotional level that I want. Many women have flirted and had crushes on me during my life. I just didn't feel that they were right for me.
Moreover, science did not say the last word on M. There is no rigorous psycological, physicological or sociaological research have done!
Check out the Kinsey Institute.
http://www.kinseyinstitute.org/
It has been around since the 40's doing research on all things about sexuality. If I'm not mistaken they have even been involved in many studies of masturbation. I have seen them quoted I think about twice by different source. You have claimed that everyone elses posts are not based in fact, however the days of Ellen White and Dr. Kellog are over. There is actual research being done in the field of human sexuality. Its not all based on theory anymore.
Remember, Newton was the ultimate authority and certain[!] during his time, but now we see his theory nothing but a junk.. well, very limited version of much general theory The General Relativity.. The most brilliant brain, Eistein, was against Quantum Mechanics with his dunken experiments.. time showed he was WRONG.. even in the medical science, as I mentioned before, about OrthoEvra, now doctors changed their mind!.. what I'm saying is science is unstable and not fully reliable and didn't utter the last word.. day by day we see old things leave please to totally different conclusions.. roof above unstable fundamental won't hang for long..
I hate to do this but You keep trying to make this same argument so here goes. The ideas that you have posted in this and other posts were based in the old ideas of sexuality. They were based in religion (whether it was a correct interpretation of religion or not) and the theories of a few people who claimed to have a base in science for their argument. However, none of these people every performed any truly scientific studies to prove themselves. Often the only tests that were performed were on already ailing patients. This totaly excludes the rest of the population that is living in perfect health and thereby is fundamentaly flawed.
I know no celestial religion that encourages celibacy[=not getting married entire life]; infact this was invented by 'priests' ending up with failure..
The Roman Catholic church started prohibiting marriage for its priests long ago out of greed (the church's history is full of it). You see the church paid all living exspenses for its priests and no longer wanted the burden of paying for wives and children. There are no other religions that I nknow of that make such rules for the preists.
I also want to mention that this entire forum is mostly about sexuality in general so there will be mentions of many things that you may feel are wrong. However, attempting to change a persons perspective will often bring about a great deal of resistance. Its fine to defend your view. Just try to do it in a calm and understanding way. Your last post took a step in the right direction in doing that to some extent. Its just when you constantly say You are wrong without providing proof you are asking for a rather nasty confrontation.
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melvaughn
Member
Posts: 68
Registered: 06-30-2005 Location:
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posted on 03-01-2006 at 19:03 |
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Studies
The above stats I mentioned were taken from my Textbook, “Human Sexuality in a world of diversity” from a Psychology class I took a year ago. All this talk of masturbation, I decided to re-read the chapter on masturbation and figured I’d quote some of the statistics and studies that were done. By the way, now that you’ve read up on Kinsey, have you seen the movie? It’s called “Kinsey” with Liam Neeson. It came-out a year ago and it’s about his life, and his studies. It’s a really interesting and funny movie and gives a lot of insight into the repressed views at the time he did his studies.
Okay, here’s some interesting info, quoted from my book:
“Despite past views in history, there is no scientific evidence that masturbation is harmful. Masturbation does not cause insanity, grow hair on the hands, or any of the other psychological and physical ills once ascribed to it. Masturbation is physically harmless, save for rare injuries to the genitals from rough stimulation. Nor is masturbation in itself psychologically harmful, although it may be a sign of an adjustment problem if people use masturbation as an exclusive sexual outlet when opportunities for sexual relationships are available. Sex therapists have even found that masturbation has therapeutic benefits. It has emerged as a treatment for women who have difficulty reaching orgasm. Of course, people who consider masturbation wrong, harmful, or sinful may experience anxiety or guilt if they masturbate or wish to masturbate. These negative emotions are linked to their attitudes toward masturbation, not to masturbation per se.
In a study of students in an urban American University, 85% of the women and 95% of the men reported that they had masturbated. A survey of university students in British Columbia found that nearly twice as many men (80%) as women (48%) reported some experience with masturbation. As age increases, so does the proportion of people who masturbate. About one-third on the students feel guilty about masturbation.
At another Ontario University, more men (85%) than women (62%) had first masturbated before the age of 16. While 92% of the women and 75% of the men reported having had an orgasm in more than half of their masturbation experiences, more women (17%) than men (6%) said they had more than one orgasm in more than half of these experiences.
Married people are less likely to have masturbated during the past 12 months than never-married. Nevertheless, only 43% of the married men and 63% of the married women sampled said that they had not masturbated at all during the past year.
Education would appear to be a clearly liberating influence on masturbation. For both genders, people with more education reported more frequent masturbation. Perhaps better-educated people are less likely to believe the old horror stories about masturbation or to be subject to traditional social restrictions. Conservative religious beliefs appear to constrain masturbation.
There appears to be a link between attitudes toward masturbation and orgasmic potential. A study of women revealed more negative attitudes toward masturbation among a group of 21- to 40-year olds who had never achieved orgasm than among a comparison group of women who had. Kinsey and his colleagues had reported links between prior masturbation and sexual satisfaction in marriage. Women who had masturbated during adolescence were more likely to find gratification in marital coitus than women who had not (Kinsey, 1953). People who masturbate early are probably generally more open to exploring their sexuality and learning about the types of stimulation that arouse them. These attitudes would carry over into marriage and increase the likelihood that women would seek the coital stimulation they need to achieve sexual gratification.
Other researchers find that women achieve orgasm more reliably through masturbation than through coitus. On the basis of her magazine study, Hite reported that 92% of her sample could reliably achieve orgasm through masturbation. Only 30% regularly did so through coitus. Masters and Johnson also found that masturbation was a more reliable means for a woman to achieve orgasm than coitus, at least for women who accept masturbation as a sexual outlet."
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melvaughn
Member
Posts: 68
Registered: 06-30-2005 Location:
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posted on 03-01-2006 at 19:06 |
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More interesting info
Now to shadow what I said earlier and also from my textbook:
“In contrast to the male myth (Kinsey and his colleagues describe it as a “male conceit” that women usually masturbate by stimulating penile thrusting through the insertion of fingers or phallic objects into their vagina’s, relatively few women actually do. Hite reported that only 1.5% of her respondents relied exclusively on vaginal insertion as a means of masturbation. Kinsey and his colleagues found that only one in five women had sometimes used vaginal insertions of objects during masturbation. Some women first experimented with the technique of vaginal insertions but then gave it up as they became more familiar with their sexual anatomy and capabilities. Even when women do use insertion, they usually precede or combine it with clitoral stimulation.”
I think this info fits perfectly with why a lot of women find it so difficult to orgasm during penetrative sex. I use to think it was so unfair there weren’t more nerve endings (or a clitoris) inside the vagina but I think our bodies our designed this way because, otherwise giving birth would seriously damage the clitoris. I mean, not only is the clitoris on the outside of the vagina, but it’s not even that close to the opening. Passing a baby through the vaginal canal would probably damage any nerve endings, which is why the g-spot is very embedded in the tissues. You have to use a lot of force to stimulate this spot and only with persistent stimulation, but once found, a women can have a continous orgasm- one on top of the other. (or so I’ve heard, in the women who were able to find their g-spot. But this is why most women need a combination of insertion along with clitoris stimulation or solely clitoris stimulation before or after penetrative sex. (There is only one missionary position I’ve heard of that stimulates the clitoris (but it’s tricky to do) and ‘Man from behind’ position, stimulates the G-spot, but the man, can rub the clitoris while having sex in almost any position which is likely to make the women orgasm.
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22yearguyvirgin
Senior Member
Posts: 104
Registered: 01-18-2006 Location:
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posted on 03-01-2006 at 19:42 |
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Must kill titles
Melvaugh,
I think our bodies our designed this way because, otherwise giving birth would seriously damage the clitoris.
Interesting theory, I must admit I never thought of it like that but it makes since.
Even when women do use insertion, they usually precede or combine it with clitoral stimulation
Of course, I am still a virgin but I already feel that "foreplay" (clitoral stimulation) should play a large role in sex. I'm just affraid that most men are to selfish to go through with it. Thats why I said previously that I feel most guys just don't take the time pleasing their partner. I don't just include the actual act of penetration in my definition of sex. I include everything from "setting the mood" to cuddling afterward. 
I remember listening to a segment of the John Tesh radio show saying that "foreplay" should start in the morning when you first wake up. It wasn't talking about foreplay in the normal since. It was talking about making ones partner feel special with those little everyday things. To few men don't take the time to do such things. 
I don't think I would be dissappointed in the least if I don't get any visable pleasure from sex with my wife at times and I don't expect anything like that at least not until we are comfortable with each other (my future wife and me). I admit it would be nice but my biggest fantasy is just pleasing a woman.
Thanks for the stats. I rarely find such well defined information and the psycology class I had almost completely neglected sexuality. Instead it opted for multiple chapters on Freudian ideology which I happen to find for the most part disgusting and incorrect.
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melvaughn
Member
Posts: 68
Registered: 06-30-2005 Location:
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posted on 03-01-2006 at 20:32 |
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Everyone has to take a sex class-they are so much fun
22yearguyvirgin,
Your welcome,
The class I took was in the "Psych Department" but it was a class about sex and sex only. It was called "Human Sexuality" (I admit I took it as an easy credit but it was still interesting.) The info in the class was all recent and updated,(from the 80's-2006) not Freudian. There would be entire chapters dedicated to Sexual dysfunctions and sexual fetishes....I think I learned more about every tiny sexual detail then I probably wanted
I'm just affraid that most men are to selfish to go through with it. Thats why I said previously that I feel most guys just don't take the time pleasing their partner
This might be true for some men, but not the ones I'm around. The guys I know who sleep around a lot or who are very experienced... all they talk about is oral sex on women as if they are OBSESSED with it. Interestingly, the same experiments and survey's that were done on masturbation, found that the more educated an individual, the more prevalent and frequent couples engaged in oral sex, in comparison to individuals that did not finish high school or go to University. (who rarely if never engaged in oral sex let alone more adventourous sex acts) It seems education makes one more 'free and open' sexually.
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22yearguyvirgin
Senior Member
Posts: 104
Registered: 01-18-2006 Location:
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posted on 03-01-2006 at 21:34 |
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All tittles must die
I wish the college I went to had more psycology. I think the class I took was one of two they actually offered. The place is horrifically lacking in all things scientific but they were close to home so I went anyway. Now I wish I had gone elsewhere. I wound up giving up on the place after a few semesters of not getting the classes I needed. Their mathmatics department messed up my GPA (50% fail rate for most of the courses offered in that department) so now I have a hard time finding funding. I opted to go for an associates degree at a local technical school until I can get the money up to go elsewhere (One of the many problems I've had coming from a poor family).
I don't know if its just the region I live in but for some reason most of the guys I meet are more obsessed with the number of women they can bed and have no second thoughts about how they act or how pleasing they are to their partners. Where I live sexuality is still a closed subject. In fact the sell of sex toys is still illegal here.
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melvaughn
Member
Posts: 68
Registered: 06-30-2005 Location:
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posted on 03-02-2006 at 15:16 |
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Different attitudes of men
I can't imagine a college having only two psych courses. I'm a psych minor and my school has a list of over 50 specialized psych courses that you can't even decide what to take. (Psychopathology, Personality Psych, Memory, Social Psych, How children learn to read, sexuality, Psych of evil...to mention only a few.
ALso, I live in Toronto and no one would blink an eye over sex toys here. It's pretty common, and even out in smaller town/subarbs, you'll see lots of stag shops. I had no clue, they were illegal in some places. (That's so funny)
Around where I live, all guys talk about is pleasing women. They view it as an ego boost or confidence boost, since it makes them feel good to have the power to control someone else's pleasure. I've heard guys say, that if the women isn't enjoying sex/or having an orgasm they will find the sex completely boring...I mean you might as well be masturbating if the women is just lying there. (why not have sex with a blow-up doll then?) Part of what makes sex exciting is the other partners 'enjoyment'. The number of women they bed is popular here as well but so is bragging about how much the women enjoyed it...it's like they arn't happy unless the women has had five orgasms or something. (even if it's a one-night stand) And strange enough, I've also heard plenty of guys say that if they were limited to only one sex act for the rest of their life, they would pick oral sex on a women. They claim that it's more of a turn-on then regular sex..(weird) I'm guessing age, seriousness of relationship and the location of where you live plays a part in the different attitudes.
Also, to add to the masturbation debate, it just dawned on me that another common sex act many couples perform, is not only mutual masturbation, but letting their spouse watch them masturbate....many couples do this as a form of foreplay, where the wife will let the husband watch how she masturbates. I mean, to view masturbation as unhealthy, would ruin all this fun foreplay. Not to mention, watching your spouse masturbate would help the husband know what techniques she uses (and vice versa) so your not stumbling around blindly not knowing what will work for the person...I think communication and having an open/comfortable attitude is key, otherwize your not going to have a clue what pleases the other person...again, why masturbation is so important (not just for singles, but even in a marriage...I view it almost as a teaching tool)
Here's a poll/and discussion of other married christians who do this.
http://www.themarriagebed.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=305
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GradBoy
Senior Member
Posts: 124
Registered: 02-22-2006 Location: Va
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posted on 03-02-2006 at 15:31 |
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hahaa..
Come on.. teaching tool that's funny excuse :)
by the way, I also find this forum dead; and don't get a little motivation to look further on discussion.. it's just doesn't worth it I guess..
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GradBoy
Senior Member
Posts: 124
Registered: 02-22-2006 Location: Va
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posted on 03-02-2006 at 15:36 |
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an idea
Hey melvaughn, I've got an idea, why don't you and 22Guy get to know each other, you fit each other well, the age, common values.. and many more; go get married and that way you won't need any toys or any other weird stuff
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liz25
Member
Posts: 46
Registered: 02-26-2006 Location:
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posted on 03-02-2006 at 15:39 |
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rolling eyes
Sorry Gradboy, but the only one making excuses is you. The most common problem married couples have are orgasm difficulties for the exact repressed views I've seen on here. If everyone had melvaughn's open viewpoint, people would have happier, more adventourous sex lives. I agree with everything melvaughn and guyvirgin22 have said so far. And sorry but what you've said sounds outdated and inaccurate, and doesn't even make a lot of sense.
And, I hate to say it, but good luck finding a women who doesn't masturbate, we arn't living in the 18th century anymore.
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GradBoy
Senior Member
Posts: 124
Registered: 02-22-2006 Location: Va
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posted on 03-02-2006 at 15:44 |
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too open minded
Hi Liz25,
Good to know you are alive
No I'm not outdated at all. melvaughn is very open minded, but it could bring dangerous marriage; her husband won't be able to please her as she wishes, then what, divorce??
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liz25
Member
Posts: 46
Registered: 02-26-2006 Location:
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posted on 03-02-2006 at 15:47 |
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I don't think so
Again, your using 'excuses'. Divorce happens more often when a couple ends up in a sexless marriage for the exact repressed views you hold. If you can't bring yourself to even touch your wife in a sexual way, besides intercouse, she won't be very satisfied sexually.
Melvaughn, will actually be able to get MORE satisfaction, because of all the reasons posted above and in the studies posted. Have you even read them?? Communication and an open attitude toward sex are the biggest indicators of marital satiscation. I mean you are just being silly now, and saying things that don't even make rational sense....Any credibility you once had is getting worst and worst. Plus the sex practices she is mentioning are NOTHING shocking. They are very common among most people. Look at the christian website she posted!!!!!!
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GradBoy
Senior Member
Posts: 124
Registered: 02-22-2006 Location: Va
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posted on 03-02-2006 at 15:58 |
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sense
Ms. Liz,
I need no credibility, ok? I'm here just as a guest. But I like you call as you want.
Liz, as I mentioned above referring to dreamangel, if you read it, you would see that mutual sexuality is as open as it could be!!!! What ever way you want.. please your husband, or he should make sex as joyful as you want or as it's possible. I don't find it wrong at all..
The only thing I find immoral is artificial ejaculation (satisfaction); toys, M, animals.. whores.. are just ugly, un-acceptable and seems to me immoral. That's all, clever Liz.
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liz25
Member
Posts: 46
Registered: 02-26-2006 Location:
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posted on 03-02-2006 at 16:03 |
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Not immoral
Artificial ejaculation? So, you have to ejaculate in your wife's vagina ONLY or else it's artificial. That makes no sense at all. Where does it say that Masturbation, sex toys are immoral? If two consenting adults are married and enjoy this type of sex play, it is not immoral...it's called 'pleasing your spouse' HUGE difference. After being married to the same person for 20 years, couples can keep a sex live alive, by being creative in bed..It keeps things spiced up. Sex DOES become boring when done the same way, everyday...life is about variety, and it's never good to get in a rut.
You cannot connect having sex with animals/Prostitutes, but rather you are honouring and blessing your spouse by keeping the sex active through masturbation or sex toys....or any other method you want to use to help your spouse enjoy sex!! And yes, masturbation CAN be used as a teaching tool!!!
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GradBoy
Senior Member
Posts: 124
Registered: 02-22-2006 Location: Va
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posted on 03-02-2006 at 16:08 |
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hmm
Interesting, but let's take MARRIAGE out of discussion, will you? As I said, all kind of mutual is ok. Let's come to our objective, since we are all singles here..
By the way, as time is not independent of position (they are bindled), the same way I thing sex is something that doesn't make much sence without passion, love and dignity.. So, one takes a toy, no feeling of love nothing, just stimulation and forceful joy..ewww; do you really think it's ok?
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liz25
Member
Posts: 46
Registered: 02-26-2006 Location:
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posted on 03-02-2006 at 16:12 |
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toy
Using a toy or masturbating isn't going to take away the love you have for the person..It will make you excited that you are giving pleasure to your spouse. You can be connected emotionally plus have an amazing pysical connection as well. People incorporate all kinds of things (dressing-up) into the sex act. People connect both emotionally and pysically...if your having 'stoic sex' the same way everyday, some of that 'connection' is going to be lost. Plus if you are 'pleasing' the other person and YOU also find it pleasing, how is it wronge???? Most likely it will 'cement' your love. There is MORE to sex than three minutes of thursting and then rolling over and going to sleep.
If more women were uninhibited and would 'perform strip teases' for their husband, less husbands would be seeking out prostitutes and going to strip clubs!!! Men do have a pretty high sex drive!
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GradBoy
Senior Member
Posts: 124
Registered: 02-22-2006 Location: Va
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posted on 03-02-2006 at 16:18 |
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still marriage
Liz, you are still on spouse stuff; being successful in marriage, treating your wife as queen, and learning how to please her meanwhile is different.. All mutual sex under marriage.. is dignity, is normal, is valued and has blessful outcomes; kids!
Now, you by using toys or M, is that for prospective marriage, to please your probably prespective husband? If you would know that 3 days from now, there will be global starvation, will you make your stomach fully loaded?
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GradBoy
Senior Member
Posts: 124
Registered: 02-22-2006 Location: Va
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posted on 03-02-2006 at 16:20 |
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gotta go
Liz, it's very nice talking to you, but I gotta go, I feel the smell of pizza (freschetta).. and watch a wonderful movie called Equilibrium!! I know you didn't see it, do so, you will be thrilled, really.
Take care,
Cheers
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liz25
Member
Posts: 46
Registered: 02-26-2006 Location:
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posted on 03-02-2006 at 16:27 |
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still nothing wronge
There are many means of how one masturbates..using a sex toy is just one of these many means. People who have a strong libeido can masturbate to keep their sex drive in shape and their genitals happy and healthy. The flow of blood to the genitals is a sign of health for instance.
Furthermore, these practices can continue after marriage as well...
You wouldn't eat the same food everyday for the rest of your life would you??
Like I said above...some men seek out prostitutes and strip clubs, because they are in a sexless marriage, or because they don't try and spice up the sex and they are unhappy and unsatisfied. If people want to use masturbation as an aid for release before marriage there is NOTHING wrong with that!!!
It's like eating desert after dinner. Are you going to tell someone to stop eating...I could probably find an argument that 'food' is immoral, using your rational...everything is in moderation! Most people don't sit around all day masturbating, but when they do, that is a completely common and normal act.
If you don't feel right about these things, then that is good for you. It's your life. You have to live it. Why don't you wait until you are married and see how it works out for you. But let others do what they want without saying one way of life is immoral. People eat different foods in different cultures, and I'm not going to say their food is immoral and mine isn't...that would be ethnocentrism. So, what both of us are doing (masturbating or choosing not to masturbate, are both normal, so don't judge those who do, as acting immorally.)
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melvaughn
Member
Posts: 68
Registered: 06-30-2005 Location:
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posted on 03-02-2006 at 16:36 |
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wow
I go away for 10 mins and come back to this!!!I'm soooo confused..lol
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GradBoy
Senior Member
Posts: 124
Registered: 02-22-2006 Location: Va
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posted on 03-02-2006 at 17:11 |
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I'm back
Where we stopped? Oh eating other cultural food, pizza is already different one, and I'm eating it..
Also, I don't force on you to have M, or not. I am not here to impose my views; rather to discuss what you are already doing. Anyway, is there any other topic? It becomes boring to talk on MMMMMMMMM.. I never thought someday I will be talking on M, I know, this forum is all about sexuality.. that's why I asked 22Guy, if there is any other good forum.
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